While browsing Twitter I came across a tweet talking about pop star and former Nickelodeon star Ariana Grande said that she would want to invite Jeffrey Dahmer to a dinner party. At first I thought this had to be a parody. There’s no way she’d say something that insane, right? This sounds like something from a satire site like The Onion, The Babylon Bee, Hard Times, Waterford Whispers, or a satirical Twitter account like Poo Crave. But when I looked it up, it was actually something she said. It’s a perfect example of a headline I’d see in r/nottheonion. Let’s break it down!
Content warning: mentions of murder, sexual assault, and disturbing heinous crimes. If discussion of these topics bothers you, please stop scrolling and push the back button. Thank you.
The story and the reaction
Earlier this month, she appeared on You star Penn Badgley’s podcast Podcrushed. In the interview she says that she is a true crime fan and was “infatuated” with serial killers when she was younger, said that Jeffrey Dahmer is “pretty fascinating” and that she would have loved to have met him and asked him questions in response to a question she was once asked about who her dream party guest, dead or alive, would be. Of all the fascinating people that have inhabited planet Earth, why Jeffrey Dahmer? Couldn’t be like a famous actor, author, poet, musician, artist, historical figure, anyone but a murderer? I know that she was recounting an old story but why bring something embarrassing up from the past?
Jeffrey Dahmer became one of the most famous serial killers and one of the most famous true crime cases. Even those who are not true crime geeks will know the basic story: a gay Wisconsin man who murdered 17 men and boys between 1978-1991. He was also a cannibal and a necrophile. The story would make you sick. Like many people I’ve watched the Netflix series about Dahmer and it was horrifying and nightmare inducing to say the least. Absolutely not someone you want to glorify and it makes me really upset to see people being so disrespectful to the victims, survivors, and their families all because they think “I can fix him”. To be charitable to Ariana Grande, maybe that’s not what she’s thinking, but what would you ask him that interviewers haven’t asked him before?
As you can imagine, Ariana Grande rightfully got backlash for this comment from family members of Dahmer’s victims. Tony Hughes’ mother called Ariana Grande “sick in her head” and then said “It’s not fancy or funny to say you would have wanted to do dinner with him. It’s also not something you should say to young people, which she says she did.” These men and boys had so much more life left in them and they died in the most painful, torturous ways and then their dead bodies were desecrated. Ariana Grande says she’s an avid true crime fan and she’s watched documentaries about Jeffrey Dahmer and she’d still list him as one of her dream dinner party guests knowing all of this? This is common knowledge and she is being extremely disrespectful to the victims and their families! Does she have a weird fantasy? Did she say this for shock value because she knew it would get people talking? Does she have new music or a new product she’s trying to sell so she’s doing anything to get attention? I don’t know what makes someone think it’s okay to verbalise this thought, especially on a podcast where you’re being interviewed and recorded!
Many such cases, as you can see in this Vice article. Jeffrey Dahmer isn’t the only serial killer or mass murderer to be fetishised: Charles Manson had his cult, Ted Bundy had groupies and one of them married him while he was on trial for murder and then had his baby, John Wayne Gacy had pen pals (one of them was convicted paedophile Brian Peck, who assaulted Drake Bell – that story was told in the true crime documentary series Quiet On Set – Gacy called Peck a friend), and the Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had fangirls. What is wrong with people? Why are there so many sickos? Why is this what people associate with true crime? Is it possible to be an ethical true crime enthusiast?
Why this makes the true crime community look bad
I’ve been a true crime fan for over 20 years. That makes me sound old, but I’m almost 30. I’ve been watching true crime documentaries longer than I’ve been into classic rock. I would watch true crime documentaries every weekend with my dad starting when I was 8 or 9 years old. I’d often watch Court TV and CNN broadcasts of high profile trials. When the channel Investigation Discovery launched when I was a teenager, I was hooked. I’d go down true crime Wikipedia rabbit holes. Some people might call it bad parenting to show your child content that talks about violence, but there’s something educational about true crime and I’ll elaborate on that later in this blog post.
If you were to ask me or my dad why true crime fascinates us, I think our answers would be the same. We’re most fascinated with the psychology and the legal and criminal justice system aspects of true crime. The typical questions run through our minds as we read these compelling stories: What makes someone do such a thing? What was going on inside their head when they were committing murders? Did anything in their life predispose them to being a murderer? Were they mentally ill? What were the other sides of this person? Were there red flags or warning signs? The legal system is fascinating too from the arrests to booking them in jail to court dates to the trial to sentencing to their life in prison.
There’s a reason that the Ted Bundy and OJ Simpson trials were so widely broadcasted and followed by so many. It’s like a car crash that you can’t stop looking at. For me in particular, I’m fascinated with celebrity trials. It’s the Icarus story arc that fascinates me and it’s a common plot line in books and movies: the rise and fall. How do you go from being someone so celebrated and well-respected and having everything to being a pariah and losing it all: your reputation and fortune? That’s what the second half of my book is all about. The perfect example of this is Phil Spector going from pioneering music producer to convicted murderer. He always had that dark side and many people saw it coming, but there were many unusual things about the case and that’s why it fascinates me. Same thing with Joe Meek, whose life and case had quite a few similarities to that of Spector.
I have never had a true crime blog. I have never glorified murderers. I am disgusted by people who do that because it makes the true crime community look bad. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be fascinated with the psychology of the murderer and maybe have some morbid curiosity about their crimes, but celebrating it? Covering it in an exploitative, sensationalist, insensitive way? No. That’s crossing the line. I hate intrusive journalists who doorstep and victim or ambulance chase. Ideally I’d like there to be no crimes and no murders. I wasn’t excited to find more and more connections between true crime and rock and roll, I was saddened and terrified that there were so many close calls and so many musicians who ended up killing people.
What we can learn from studying true crime
I think there are many valuable lessons that we can learn from true crime. One of the most important ones, and I’ve said this in interviews and talks I’ve given before, is that the most dangerous people are often the most ordinary looking people and the ones you wouldn’t suspect. Which is why I’m really annoyed with people who act all smug when it comes out that a celebrity is an abuser and they’re like “I knew they were trouble as soon as they walked in the door!” Oh really! Well if you’re such a genius and all-knowing why didn’t you say anything at the time? You could have saved someone’s life!
Acting like murderers and serial killers are always these cartoon villains whom you could tell from a mile away that they’re evil doesn’t help the victims and it isn’t the truth. It’s important to tell these true crime stories truthfully. Everyone is multifaceted, yes even the most evil people in the world! The reality is abusers and murderers are often ordinary looking people who have a charismatic and maybe even charming side to them and that’s how they get their victims. They don’t jump out and say “I’m an evil murderer and I’m gonna kill you”. No! They lure you with charm and a non-threatening event like a coffee date. Same idea as cult recruitment, that’s another topic I’m fascinated with. They go after vulnerable people: young people, lonely people, depressed people, sick people, people new to town, or poor people. People are social creatures and we want to feel like they belong. As The Stone Roses sang “I wanna be adored!” They invite people to a non-threatening event like a coffee morning, ice cream social, or some sort of seminar. There’s plausible deniability. No one wants to think these new people they’re meeting with are a cult. I was once nearly recruited into an MLM when I went on LinkedIn and this girl who went to my university said she wanted to meet me at Panera Bread to talk about this job opportunity, which was really an MLM, but she didn’t say it was one. It took me googling some buzzwords in the video she sent me and I found out it was Amway. MLMs are a lot like cults. Anyway, at this meeting they lovebomb the recruits and they hide all of the bad stuff. They give them an ultimatum and then from there when the recruit joins, they isolate them and restrict their behaviour, style, and personal expression. And from there they control you and if you leave, they might threaten your life and your family.
The similarities between murderers, cult leaders, and abusers
Cults are a lot like abusive relationships and political extremism. A recent example of this is the UK parenting forum Mumsnet, which some trans activists have dubbed Prosecco Stormfront – a witty and quite apt nickname. Sounds innocuous and non-threatening, right? Being a parent is tough and as children grow up you might want advice, so where better to go than communities with fellow parents who share their knowledge and experience? There are millions of people posting on the forums. I can’t tar them all with the same brush, but there is a culture of anti-trans sentiment on the website, especially in their feminism section. This is a huge problem. When you call it out, you’re smeared by these “as a mother” types and told “how dare you!” and they’ll respond with “won’t somebody please think of the children!”.
They hate trans people under the guise of being “concerned mothers” who think that LGBT people are brainwashing or recruiting their children when that’s not happening. LGBT people have existed even when society was incredibly hom*ophobic and it was illegal to be gay. As Lady Gaga once sang we were “born this way”. They share sensationalised stories about drag queens from far right news sources, but they ignore the sexual abuse that happens in the church or schools. The Catholic Church is a bigger threat to children than drag queens and LGBT people. I don’t see anyone saying we should shut down all of the Catholic schools and ban children from churches. Smells like hom*ophobia. Look, I don’t think that children should be allowed in gay bars (or bars in general, unless it’s a gastropub), but I think it’s possible to have a family friendly drag show and I think Pride should have family friendly events for all ages. British people know all about that, I mean look at Christmas pantomimes! There’s at least one crossdresser in the cast and parents have no issue taking their kids to the Christmas panto.
I know the Nazi comparison may seem hyperbolic, but I’m a descendant of a Holocaust victim so I can say whatever I want, any gentiles reading this, please keep your disagreements to yourself. The Nazis didn’t gas the Jews straight away. There’s multiple steps in a genocide. They started off with dividing people into us and them, discriminating against them, dehumanising groups they didn’t like. Transphobes divide people, discriminate against them, dehumanise them, and they organise (LGB Alliance, Gays Against Groomers, Fair Play For Women) and create an environment that emboldens extremists who commit hate crimes. Never once did I see any of these powerful transphobic supposed “feminists” condemn the killing of Brianna Ghey or offer condolences to her family. They kept their mouths shut and denied and deflected. Sure JK Rowling, Graham Linehan, and Justine Roberts didn’t kill Brianna Ghey, but their thoughts, actions, and words definitely created a culture and a milieu that radicalised people and emboldened hate and violence. Their silence is deafening. Anyone who stays silent in the face of oppression is siding with the oppressor and these transphobes are oppressors. What if it was their child? Standing up for women my ass. One of the wisest things my dad has told me is “you don’t have to hate others in order to love yourself”. If I could inject one message into these transphobes brains, it would be that. You can love yourself as a woman and advocate for women’s rights without hating trans people. You can advocate for gay people and bisexuals without hating trans people. If you can’t figure out how to love yourself without hating other people, you need professional help. Why spread hate when you can spread joy instead? Spreading hate is a choice.
Trans children exist and they need care and support through their transition. Trans children who get support from their families have better mental health outcomes. Parents should be supportive of their children no matter what their gender identity or sexual orientation is. If you can’t accept the possibility of your child being gay or trans, don’t have children and get over yourself. There’s no harm in letting your child choose their name and pronouns and letting them cut or grow out their hair and wear the clothes that best fit their identity. Even if it turns out to be a phase, these things are reversible, have a positive effect on their mental health, and regardless it’s good to explore your identity and learn who you are. Be your child’s cheerleader and champion, not their first bully. It’s certainly better to have a happy trans child living their best life than have to bury your child who couldn’t live as their authentic self because you refused to accept them. Protect trans kids. Trans lives matter. Simple as.
Why is this worrying? Because here in the UK there is a lot of anti-trans prejudice and the situation for trans people is awful: hate crimes, people being disowned by their families, discrimination against trans people, long wait times for trans health care, difficulty in changing your name and gender marker on all of your documents. Mumsnet is a very influential forum and prime ministers and politicians have done Q&As on Mumsnet. While the owner of the website Justine Roberts hasn’t outright said she’s transphobic, it’s certainly not a dealbreaker for her and she’s described her website as a “place where women can speak the truth”. I’m all for free speech, I’m a left wing libertarian after all, but it’s a dogwhistle. Interesting how if you clap back on Mumsnet and say anything in support of trans people, you get hate mobbed and banned. If she supported trans people, she would have her moderators crack down on the bigotry on her website. You are the company you keep, remember that. Running a company has a lot of rewards, but with these rewards come a lot of responsibilities and if your company messes up, all fingers are pointed at you. If you’re going to be hateful, just say it with your whole chest. Stab me in the front like a real friend.
As a cisgender ally with trans family and friends, I’m a bit more worried about places that harbour a transphobic culture than outright transphobic institutions and extremists. Even the once-beloved children’s author JK Rowling has been under fire for some time now and has gone full mask off with her hatred of trans people. Sure she’s influential and rich and can funnel money to anti-trans groups, but I’m more worried about the radicalisation of normal people, the masses. At the end of the day, each person gets one vote. Where did I get this idea? Well, I got it from Martin Luther King’s quote about white moderates being more of and obstacle to progress than Ku Klux Klanners and Malcolm X’s quote about the white liberal being like a fox.
“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
Martin Luther King Jr.
“The white conservatives aren’t friends of the Negro either, but they at least don’t try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the ‘smiling’ fox.”
Malcolm X
Well, that was quite a tangent. Point is that it’s important to recognise patterns and it’s a sign of intelligence and we as humans have evolved to see patterns because it keeps us safe and we learn about the world through observation and research. True crime has really taught me a lot about the world and I think there’s a lot of value in reading about it from learning about human psychology to learning about the legal system to recognising red flags and warning signs to learning to trust your gut. It’s easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but in the moment and when you’re in the situation, it’s hard to see. It’s much easier to see when you’re an observer. Saying “I’ve always known they were evil” is a lot like saying “Why didn’t you leave them?”. It’s victim blaming and unhelpful.
I was a victim of a violent crime when I was 18 years old. I froze as soon as I was assaulted and all I could do was cry and say no repeatedly. This was someone I thought I could trust. I thought he was my friend. I didn’t think he was attracted to me. I didn’t owe him sex because he had given me a lift from the airport only a few days before. I was purely focussed on survival and making it out of there alive. I legitimately thought I was going to die that night. Why didn’t I run out of that hotel room? I was an underweight 5’6″ woman with a bad knee. I couldn’t outrun him; he was skinny, but he was in shape and had muscle definition. For all I knew, he had a knife and could have stabbed me in the corridor. Why didn’t I text for help? He could have looked over my shoulder and seen what I was trying to do. When we checked out of the hotel room, why didn’t I tell the front desk staff about what happened? There was no “Ask For Angela” scheme at that time where I could give them a discrete code phrase like “Hey, is Angela there?” or “Can I have an Angel shot?”. Why did I let him drive me home? I was skint. I had no money in my bank account at the moment (I had to wait for the money from my parents to show up in my account), I had no credit card. I certainly couldn’t afford a taxi and I don’t know if they’d let me open a tab. Not long after that I finally cut ties with an abusive “friend” from my secondary school years. Again, why did I stay friends with him for so long? I was lonely and had rock bottom self esteem and no self respect. I got out by ghosting him and blocking him everywhere. Ghosting is bad, but there is one situation where it’s acceptable to do it and that’s in an abuse situation where you’re worried about your safety. Thankfully I had a border between me and this abuser so it made it easier for me to leave.
To sum it up: the most dangerous people are often the most ordinary looking people – always be aware of your surroundings and who you’re with and go with your gut if something doesn’t feel right, know the signs of radicalisation and cult recruitment because they’re a lot like the steps of an abusive relationship, don’t glorify murderers, and stop victim blaming.
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CategoriesCommentary
TagsAriana Grande, crime, Jeffrey Dahmer, LGBT, LGBTQ, music, music news, News, opinion, trans rights, true crime
